Is it Just to punish an innocent man? Pt. 4

"What evidence is there?"

All kinds. Everything from nature itself to metaphysics. As I was discussing with John, the problem is that the nature of evidence is quite subjective. What one person accepts, another may not.

"They might have had the opportunity, but no reason to. And now that they have a reason to believe in God they don't have an opportunity."

That's never true, there are always reasons to believe. And I rather doubt experiencing horrific agony and separation from God would leave them to LOVE God. It is about more than just belief that God exists, after all. It is about loving Him and following Him. Mere belief guarantees nothing.

"I did it through research and thought, looking at the evidence."

You changed your mind from what, to what, after how long a period of time?

"If there was strong evidence, yes."

That doesn't answer the question. I could present tons of evidence, but there's no guarantee that any evidence is strong. A skeptic can shoot down ANYTHING, any sort of evidence, whether it be empirical, metaphysical, experiential, etc.

"I think I should be given the opportunity, even after I die."

Why should you? Sounds pretty self-centered to me. And if you're that self-centered, there's no reason to believe you'd convert no matter the chances you're given.

And logically, how could you? You're not going to exist in time as you do now, no matter what, after you die.

"How do you know which ones are heretical?"

By examining history, Church Tradition, Scripture, logic, etc. It's easy to trace the historical Church, and it's easy to note the points at which heresies sprang up, and what they rebelled against and whether it was believed prior to that time.

"But you also said that existence is good, thus the rejection of good entails and ending to existence which is good."

And I ALSO noted that it is not within our power to end our existence, as that is continuously maintained by God. Our lives are within our ability to end, our existence is not.

"Assuming is necessary in life, the best course of action is to only make logical assumptions and not illogical ones."

Depends on what you mean by logical assumptions. It's logical to believe certain things, like that you need to eat and drink and sleep. But those aren't assumptions so much as conclusions based on axioms. Now the acceptance of those axioms should be done with good reason still, not just assumed.

"What if we wanted to stop existing?"

Too bad. You can't stop your existence, and God won't stop your existence.

"Is pride good? If not then how did humanity have it when humanity was good?"

No, pride isn't good. When humanity was good, humanity still had the ability to make choices, as we do now. According to the spiritual truths presented by the Bible concerning the Fall, what is perhaps the most important aspect of the Fall was the temptation of Man to be like to God, in the sense that by rebelling against God, it was the only way humanity could claim to be independent the way God is. In the pride of seeking equality with God, we fell, and so lost God's Grace and corrupted the good of our lives.

"Is that desire good? If not then how did humanity have it?"

Humanity has always had the ability to choose. And the temptation arose through the influence of an entity most know as Satan.

"Is selfishness good? if not how did humanity have it?"

Humanity always had the influences of its animal nature because humanity has always been the commingling of body and spirit, called the soul. Animal instinct may in part have contributed to this selfishness. But again, the initial temptation sprang from Satan, and was received well by humanity.

"Maybe in your discussions, but pretty much every person I have met defines God differently."

Ahh, but do they have ACTUAL philosophical discussions, or are they just chatting about God?

"I don't think I understand, could you clarify?"

Ok. Have you ever heard the arguments regarding the Uncaused Cause?

"Does the fact that these religions are younger than Christianity change the fact that these people happily sacrificed themselves?"

You haven't demonstrated that they did. Moreover, the fact that they're all related to Christianity undermines your point, since it could be that very Christian influence which caused it.

"I don't see why the fact that Christianity was the first (but not only) religion to have happy martyrs is convincing."

It's not meant to convince you completely. It's merely one point among many small points which build up to a gradual understanding of Christianity. It was also meant to illustrate a specific point in our discussion, as I recall.